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Aaron Sherritt
Wed Aug 4 04:48:09 2004
Joe.D Hi all,
This may be a touchy subject but it has been on my mind for some time now. As we all know Aaron Sherritt was working closely with the Vic, police and betraying Ned & the gang. I cant help but to wonder if Aaron really wanted to give up the boys he could have at any time, so my thoughts are that Aaron was only toying with the police for personal gain.
Obviously Ned & the gang thought other wise, why? I just can not understand why Aaron would betray his mates. I have read Ian Jones book The FATEL FRIENDSHIP & I believe Aaron may have been innocent even though he worked with the police, it is my opinion Aaron did this for personal gain and for no other reason.
I would love to hear your views regarding this issue.
My wish is not to offend but to gain a better understanding and motives of Aaron Sherritt.
Joe.D
Aaron.........
Tim
Hey Joe, long time no hear ! Its funny when you read a story, see a movie or visit an exhibition or musuem and have Aaron as a traitor and betrayer of the Kelly gang. I know I did until I read " Fatal Friendship " and my whole views on Aaron totally changed. In the end I think he pushed his allegiances with both parties too far and payed the ulitimate price. The boys finally had the bait they needed and Ward at last had the boys in the open. When you visit the police caves some day soon, sit on the rock overlooking Byrnes homestead and think what the hell were the police doing. Aaron had them set up perfectly, right where he wanted them, not chasing the Kelly's around the countryside but stagnant in a cave where they really could do no damage. When you sit at the caves and reflect on the history before you, things certainly do make more sense ! Remember Aaron had always struggled with his selection, was finally married to Belle and was going to become a father, sometimes money does cloud your judgement. One thing that has never changed to this day..............pride & greed.
Tim.
)
Sharon in the USA
When I first got interested in the Kelly story I had a down on Aaron Sherritt, too! But, like Tim, after reading "The Fatal Friendship" I gained a better understanding of the complex relationship between these two men. I truly believe that Aaron was acting to save Joe from the gallows, and that he might have started out with the best intentions. Yet, so much occurred to widen the rift between the two old friends and when you factor in the element of greed we have a recipe for tragedy! It was obvious that Aaron was a poor man with rich man's tastes! He liked the finer things in life and liked to dress flashily and lied about how much money he had. Belle seems to have swallowed that hook, line and sinker! Remember in the book when Aaron went to storekeeper Paddy Allen on his wedding day desperately seeking a loan and saying that he doesn't have a cent and she thinks I have plenty!!!!! Also this same storekeeper was quoted as saying "Sherritt was a man who would do anything–all was the same to him, so that it paid. I used to have a pair of big knee boots that he badly wanted to get. I told him that had an execution out against a man at the Woolshed, and that if he'd run in enough of the man's cattle to satisfy the judgment, the boots were his. He did it, at once."
Also that expensive sidesaddle that was supposedly stolen from their house, that was bought on credit as a gift for Belle. Suffice it to say, Aaron liked to play the role of big spender, but there must have been something deeper than just the greed, but who can know what was going through his mind with myriad pressures and conflicts on all sides? An interesting question you have asked, Joe D., surely has gotten my wheels turning, and I hope we get a good and lively convo going!
Sharon
MarianM
We can't discount the very clever strategy that Det. Michael Ward was playing. He was a loathsome creature but a very good judge of people, I believe. He manipulated the situation beautifully so that everyone came to believe Aaron's guilt. Also, as Joe said in his letter to Aaron, the Quinns and Lloyds already believed he was guilty. I doubt that he would have ever done anything to endanger Joe's life but he just ended up getting out of his depth. He even had his family fooled! Joe just caved in under pressure in the end and I guess he was also out of his depth. Don't forget also that Ned asked the police if they had tortured Aaron which seems to me as though Ned felt Aaron had betrayed them in some way but that he hadn't done so willingly. All in all, an awful situation with horrible consequences but I bet Ward was very pleased with himself. What a skunk.
........ Speaking of Detective Ward...
Sharon in the USA
A whole lot could be said about Detective Ward and his part in the Sherritt affair and the whole Kelly business. Remember in the Cameron letter where Ned stated that during raids on the Kelly house that "Detective Ward and Constable Hayes took out their revolvers and threatened to shoot the girls and children whilst Mrs. Skillion was absent, the eldest being with her." Of course in the Royal Commission Ward tried to say it was just Ned turning things around. Odder still in light of the Cameron letter, and not withstanding the time a police watch party led by Ward came upon Kate and Maggie when they were stranded in the mud with their dray, Ward and another policeman went on to do the watch and two other troopers assisted the girls to get home, but there was an interesting exchange between Ned and Ward at Glenrowan as Ned lay in the railway station, Detective Ward alleges that: "I said to him, 'Hello, Ned, how do you feel? You're looking well.'.....he said, 'How would a man be likely to feel in this position? You ought to feel pretty well, considering you were not shot.' 'But, Ned,' I replied, 'you've been saying that you were going to make me into soup, and compel Steele and French to drink it. Why did you say that?' The wounded outlaw snarled savagely, 'Why did you arrest Joe Byrne, he demanded, 'and that little scoundrel Sherritt?' 'Because they were breaking the law,' I answered. 'Well,' he said, 'you're lucky you're not shot, anyway.' 'You never could have shot me.' "Yes, we could; but it wouldn't have suited our purpose, and besides there's this about it, you were always kind to my sisters. Tell you what, Mrs. Jones has gone down on her knees to me begging me not to shoot you, whoever we did shoot. Well, it's all over now. You've done your part, but I'll always remember your kindness to my sisters always.' 'Kelly was that sort of man,' concluded the ex-detective. 'He never forgot a good turn. I let him off in Wangaratta once when I should have arrested him for making a disturbance at a church. He never forgot that.'".......(What sort of disturbance did Ned make at a church???) anyway, like everything else, we should take folk's different version of things with a grain of salt!
Sharon
Joe.D
Hi Gang
Sorry for not replying sooner,
Thanx Sharon, Tim, and Marian for replying to my post, much appreciated & still in doubt :grin: as you said Tim I must see the caves, oh speaking of caves... How far are the caves from the Byrnes Homestead?
Another Q,1. Joe's Mother actually seen Aaron & the police near the caves..is this correct?
Obviously Mrs Bryne reported the incident to Joe and the gang.Q 2 Why was there no action taken from that point on?
Q 3. How soon after the above incident was Aaron murdered?
Q 4. Was Ned actually present at the shooting?
Joe.D
....Aaron....
Tim
Hey Joe, good to have you back, not catching all my fish I hope
All the questions you have asked are in " The Fatal Friendship " Ned was certainly not there when Joe & Dan bailed up Wick and shot Aaron in front of Belle, Mrs Barry and the 4 police inside. Mrs Byrne did find the police & Aaron sleeping around the caves, which changed her whole outlook on him including the romance with Joe's sister.
When you go to the caves and look down on Byrnes homestead, there is no way the police would have got down there in a hurry if the boys visited the house during the day ! I will send you a pic looking down to where the house was and you will get a good idea how far away they were, remembering that they crept down to the back of the house everynight. Aaron had them stitched up perfectly and the boys probably knew that the police were in the caves. Joe certainly knew where the cave were located as he & Aaron grew up exploring the area.
Tim.
Sharon in the USA
Tim, didn't "The Fatal Friendship" say that one of the caves was around a mile from the Byrne house? As for how much time elapsed between the time Joe's mother "discovered" Aaron amongst the traps and when the murder occurred, it was quite a while. From all my rough gleanings and calculations, it was around Sunday, March 9, 1879 that Mrs. Byrne spied Aaron sleeping amongst the cave party.
Tim
Hey Shaz, its hard to judge distance as the caves are up pretty high above homestead. As crow flys I would sat around Ikm but when you look down from caves it seems closer. I'm pretty sure Margaret Byrne discovered the police at the lower caves which is closer to Anton Wick's place and are lower down the valley further from the " second" cave party. This also would correspond with the time differences with the first & second cave parties.
Tim
Joe.D
G'day Tim,
Yes the answers to my Q, are in the fatel Friendship and I have read other books and it has made it rather confusing to believe which book tells the true story But I suppose I'll take the word of Ian Jones and for the rest of them well.............
Once again Tim thanx your a legend with a wealth of knowledge
PS..... Hey Tim I'm always logged on to ck2 I'm never to far away :grin: I have learnt much by reading the posts lol there have been many times when I wanted to reply but I guess I'm to shy to reply.
PSS..... Hey Tim when are we going up to Kelly counrty? I'm so keen and excited I can't hardly wait.
Joe.D
KC2000 FREE FORUM please be civil to all users
........Aaron Sherritt
Joe.D
Tim,
sorry I forgot to mention that you said, you will send me a pic, of the caves looking down the homestead. Have you sent it cause I have not rcvd it as of yet.
Joe D
Sharon in the USA
You say you are too shy to post at times, Joe? (whether here or at other forums) No need to be! I look forward to your posts and I find them refreshing as you are eager and keen to learn about the gang! Lots of conflicting knowledge out there in books that is for sure, so it helps to have several folks weighing in on it and discussing. Tim has been a big help to me too! The fact he has visited most of the Kelly places really gives him a lot of insight into the story. We can talk about things like the Kelly caves on here, but he has actually been there! Maybe he can take you up there, too! Joe, you are among mates here, so never be too shy to ask a question or give an opinion! Heaven knows I am not too shy! LOL! The only way we learn is by asking!
Sharon
Tim
Hey Joe, what is ck 2 ? I have any weekend free now Aus Kick has finished, you tell me when your free and we will work out where you want to start. Will send pics to you, had forgotton mate......sorry
Fishing will soon be starting !!!!
Tim.
Joe.D
Hello Sharon Thanx for the kind words you are so very sweet thank you Tim Hehehehehe :shy: I ment to say KC2000, sorry, Ummmm Tim I have this week end off but on sunday I'm off to Flinders for Squid with a mate of mine, would you be interested in coming along, will be a nite trip though Ohhh Tim Snapper season is closing in.
enough about fishn sorry guys yeah Tim just let me know when your going up & I'll be rite by your side
Joe.D
Sharon in the USA
Hey, Joe and Tim, I enjoy hearing you fellas shoot the breeze about your fisho hobby in your postings now and again! To have a hobby that brings you as much relaxation and stimulation and enjoyment as fishing seems to is a wonderful thing! And you get to eat what you catch!!! LOL! What could be better? I have often wondered about if Ned and Joe and the boys ever fished for their dinner or just plain ol' fun! What sort of fish are in the creeks of Kelly Country?
Sharon
Joe.D
Hello Sharon, (sweetie)...Hope you do't mind me calling you sweetie :grin: Yeah I often wonder if Ned & the boys ever fished the Rivers for Natives. I have never been up Kelly Country, so I believe the Rivers back in those days would have had a very healthy population of Murry Cod, Yellow belly, Trout cod etc WOW what a lifestyle I would love to trade civies for the bush.
P.s...... Sharon I dont eat fish except for Squid yummy yummy, I tag & release for the future.
Joe.D
........ A trip........
Tim
Hey Joe, I have weekend free if you want to travel ? Depends on where you want to head first, thought Stringy/ Bullock would be an easy first trip. Mansfield & Powers could also be included, just depends on weather & time ? Anybody else would be most welcome, let me know :grin:
Dusted off the boat shaggers, ready to rock !!!! I hear they are catching some big calamari over Flinders way.
Tim.
Joe.D
Hi Tim
Wow if your refering to this w/e I'll give the fishn a miss and join you, Saturday is out of the question though cause I'll have to baby sit my boy, Sunday & Monday I'm all yours. Let us know in advance so I can bail out of the fishn trip, hehehehe I'm sure there will be plenty of SQUID for me next time.
Joe.D
......... Trip.........
Tim
Ok Sunday sounds good to me. I will probably head up with family on Sat arvo, stay in Mansfield Sat night and can meet you bright & early Sunday morning in Mansfield. Let me know what you want to do, just remember Sunday arvo ski traffic will be a killer !!!!!!!!!! Anybody else who wants to tag along, most welcome.
Tim.
Joe.D
Hey Tim If you could only see me jumping with joy Hehehehehe ok Sunday I'll meet you at Mansfield in the morning.
What time?
where?
Would love to see Springy ck/ hut site. Tim I'll leave it up to you I'm easy. Also Tim which would be the best way from F/ston?
Joe.D
KC2000 FREE FORUM please be civil to all users
....Aaron Sherritt
....... Mansfield.........
Tim
Hey Joe, right in the centre of town is a big roundabout, in the middle of it is the police memorial to Sgt Kennedy,Scanlon & Lonigan. This is a good starting point, you can't miss it, can meet you there 8/9 am. Your in F/ston, I would probably go thru to Dandy, Stud Rd, Burwood Hwy, Dorset Rd all the way to Maroondah Hwy then thru Lilydale, Coldstream, Yarra Glen, Yea to Mansfield, I would guess around 2 hrs ? There is a short cut thru the back of Lilydale to Yarra Glen, use it only if you know, a little tricky. Just confirm time, we can see memorial, cemetery, Stringy, Bullock/Kelly ck, maybe Powers lookout and a few other suprises along the way.
Tim.
Sharon in the USA
Joe, we southeners have a saying, "Call me anything you like, as long as you don't call me late to supper!" LOL!!!!
Never had any squid before! Hope you boys have a great day out and Tim, I expect some photos!
Joe.D
Tim I'll be there at 8 am sharp and if your not there by then I'll have breakfast and see you what ever time you get there. My Contact No. 0417 577 712 Tim I'm so excited.
Sharon, I will be taking a cam corder with me and I'm going to record as much as I can, would you like me to send you a copy?
Thanx Tim
Tim
Ok Joe, I am staying up there Sat night, the van park is only 2 min away, will meet you at monument 8.00amish and take it from there, look forward to catching up.
Tim.
make sure you have some good warm clothing & footware, I'll bring salt :grin:
Joe.D
Chers Tim,
see you then, Looking forward to meeting you
Joe.D
Sharon in the USA
Joe, that is so very nice of you, I wish I could view a tape of that! But, I am on the NTSC system here and Oz is on the PAL system as far as video. DVD we are region 1 while Aust. is region 4. So it won't play on my player or tv without being converted! Maybe if nothing else, Tim can scan and email a shot or two with you guys in it for me? Also, one little friendly suggestion. Once you are sure Tim has your contact number written down, you might want to go back in and edit that bit out before you get all sorts of folks calling you! Heck, I might even pick up the phone and start dialing!!!!!!!! (Just kidding!!!) LOL! Ok, hope ya'll have a great time!!!!! Sharon
Tim
Hey Shaz, on my digi camera I can do around 60 second video grabs similar to what Bruce has on this site question.....
Will the file be too big for your setup if emailed ?
If I burn onto CDR and send with all your other goodies have you access to that ?
My vcr can play NTSC or PAL have you similar ?
If not will take jpeg's and burn copy & send complete journey to you.
Tim.
Sharon in the USA
That is so nice of you to offer to do all that for me, Tim! This whole different set up between countries is a pain when one is trying to get into the loop! On this rig I am on, I can't watch video at all. I don't have a multi-region VCR either. As far as my DVD player (or taking a disk to the library to view) you might have to consult with Bruce on those specs since he has been able to make it where I can see some stuff he sent to me. He has the expertise in all that! I don't really understand any of this technical stuff! If nothing else a pic or two of you guys sent in email or a hard copy photo snail mailed will do, don't go to any extra trouble, please!
Sharon