KC2000 FREE FORUM
Page(s): [1]
ned
Wed Jul 13 21:24:03 2005
maikel annalee
dear all,
i apologise for the delay in posting this thread.
the australian natives association was originally founded in 1871 as a mutual friendly society. this soon developed into a forum and then a force in unifying the 6 colonies into a federation.
this was the aim of the miners at eureka.
it was recognized and fostered in the idigenous philosophy of pioneers such as edward kelly.
this philosophy was based on a pre-christian gnostic tradition, which has only survived in the rituals and beliefs of the mandaean followers of john the baptist. this tradition is pre-adamic and cosmologically pre-'big bang'.
about the same time as peter carey was writing his fictional 'true history', i was corresponding with geoffrey blainey.
the proposal i put to him was that edward kelly be recognized as austalia's 'home-grown': "prophet of the new".
he agreed that it was worth further study and development.
hence my appearance at the end of last year on this forum was not frivolous.
in fact the spirit of 'native ned' was a honoured part of our family tradition. as i believe it is of many others, who still call australia home.
the passage of bronwyn jones, was a great loss to our proper understanding of this spiritual tradition.
her later life was surely a tribute to the efficacy of christian belief and the pioneer philosophy of 'oz '.
so it was no great surprise, when i, like ian jones, was informed by the spirit of edward kelly.
the text of this latest meditation/conversation with the spirit of ned, links the two comments attributed to ned by 'the argus': "ah well, i suppose it has come to this" and 'the herald': "such is life" and explains the report of 'the illustrated australian news' that he said 'nothing'.
my scientific work in 'cognitive cosmology' requires me to include all possibilities, so i asked ned, if there was actually something missing, in this reported 'nothing'.
his reply confirmed the spirit of these reports. but he was concerned as to their lack of unity.
he suggested that he had in mind, when making the reported statements, a deeper philosophical principle.
this he defined as: "you can't keep the peace by injustice; you can only keep justice in peace".
he wanted this to provide the link between his 2 audible reports.
and he wanted his name to once again come to be recognized and respected as a "prophet of the new".
of the new and yet perennial pioneer philosopy of 'oz'.
this is a philosophy of peace for justice; rather than peace by injustice. it is a pre-chirist, yet christian philosophy. it is the foundation on which the australian native sons association is based.
embodied in the person of ned, sharon clearly sees it as a force for unity throughout the world.
ian jones also recognizes this, as his reply to my concluding question at the chew the fat event clearly shows.
as this is a post to share with people whom i respect and who also wish to repect the spirit of 'native ned', i ask that any problems you have with my words, respects the need to "keep justice in peace".
with respect to you all,
maikel
p.s. the events of 7/7, show the absolute need for an alternative to the 'lethal weapon' fantasies which inspired mel gibson's "christ: the passion". I believe that 'native ned' is a worthy alternative.
i also believe that bronwyn jones' filmscript could provide a firm foundation. what do you think?
Marcus
Hi Maikel,
I don't want to sound like a 'knocker' as I respect your opinions but gee, this thread is certainly difficult to follow.
I think you are correct in commenting that the indigenous philosphy of pioneers like Ned Kelly is similiar to the Mandaeans only so far that Sabian Mandaens, in the eyes of their laws are equal and one before the law.
Surely the point of being equal before the law could have been made without the added confusion of pre-gnositic traditions etc. The Australian ethos of a 'fair go' would have clarified this point a little better for the audience your thread was intended.
As for conversing with the spirit of Ned - seriously, isn't this taking it a little bit too far?
Talk of Ned wanting to be recognised as the Prophet of the New is really stretching things a little too far to be taken seriously.
Can we concentrate on trying to uncover more factual information on Ned rather than this evangelical-like talk of New Prophets as I believe it undermines your efforts to date.
best wishes
Marcus
Thu Jul 14 00:16:18 2005 (Edit Post)
Tim
here we go again..........
Can we please keep religion out of this?
Dave White
Hello all,
I am not having a go at anyone, just would like to clarify a point or two.
Mr Annelee stated the following: so it was no great surprise, when i, like ian jones, was informed by the spirit of edward kelly. the text of this latest meditation/conversation with the spirit of ned
Am I reading this right? Has Ned's spirit been visiting?
Secondly, I must say that I do have problems when Religion and Prophets come into the discussion of Ned Kelly.
Why can we not seperate the learning of Ned's history and religion?
This sort of debate is not helping anyone in my opinion.
Next we will be bringing Ned into a discussion about Scientology!
All we need is the truth, not Ned the saint, nor Ned the prophet!
Dave White.
Sharon Hollingsworth
While I may not always agree with (or even at times comprehend) some of Maikel's postulations and conclusions, I do not doubt his sincerity in believing these things himself and I can sort of understand his eagerness in wanting to "proselytize" others. In turn, it is only fair that others question and probe (not "alien" type probing, though! LOL) and try to make sense of (or discount) what he puts forth. That said, I have to say that while I have no idea if Maikel actually "talked" to Ned or not or if what was allegedly "said" was actually communicated, but I am quite prone to never summarily dismiss out of hand anyone's dealings as regards psychic phenomena as I have had many experiences from very early childhood on to the present day that make me believe that there is more going on out there than our narrow concept of reality allows for.
Remember the line from Hamlet-- "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Yet for all that, I am inclined to believe what the various newspapers reported as Ned's final words and once again in the Kelly saga as with most everything else reported on there is even discrepancy in that! What are the odds?
In this same vein, one extremely intriguing passage from Max Brown's "Australian Son" that has always made me want to find out more is this one--
"For a few days, as column after column was devoted to accounts of the outlaw's death, Australia lived the tragedy of its obstreperous son. Most were inclined to laugh at reports from spiritist circles of extraordinary disturbances in the spirit world with the arrival of the soul of Ned Kelly; but there were not a few who caught their breath when suddenly, twelve days after the outlaw was hanged, Sir Redmond Barry passed away."
Sharon
Tim
Rock on Shaz........
edward kelly as the prophet of the new
maikel annalee
dear marcus,
thank you for your courteous comments.
i have tried to make my post easier to follow, with some minor corrections and inclusion of the other 'last words' quotations, to provide the proper context of his 'last words in spirit'.
the current scholarship on mandaean religion, to which i have been asked to contribute, goes much further than equality before the law.
my essay: "masbuta [mandaean baptism] : theosophic ab-original blessing" has just been published. under the auspices of 2 universities and with the approval of the president of the international mandaean nasoraean supreme council.
my conversing with the spirit of ned, is a most serious aspect of my commitment, both professionally and personally, to cutting edge research in 'cognitive cosmology'.
sydney university and australian catholic university, both had peer reviews of my essay before publication.
there is no way i would diminish the integrity of my other work, by indulging in frivolous flights of fancy, about edward kelly.
ned's wish to be recognized as the prophet of the new is based on the text of the jerilderie document and its successor the cameron letter. as well as other letters written to the police and governor of old melbourne gaol.
ned wanted much more than a 'fair-go'. as with the miners at eureka and soldiers at war he wanted: "justice in peace."
general john monash learnt this from ned and so saved this nation from civil war. max brown returned from fighting in new guinea in ww2 was inspired by the fighting spirit of his fellow soldiers and of this 'ab-original' "australian son" and wrote his definitive work on edward kelly.
as for being a prophet, well ned spoke more like a preacher than a man. a fact confirmed by descendants of both ned's family and mine.
this is factual information. its radical tenor does not diminish its validity. even if it is difficult to follow.
sharon has made an important point about her experiences. my scientific work, in association with princeton university, supports her personal experiences.
without personal involvement such as this, peter carey can continue to imagine an emotional life for ned, which is not only false; but destroys the integrity of his character.
edward kelly unmasked is a fitting icon for our nation. his helmet remains a potent symbol, of the strength of his endeavour to overcome injustice.
its removal, gives "justice in peace", a fighting chance!
as dave repeats, without contradicting me,: "ian jones was informed by the spirit of edward kelly"
i fully support ian's experience, even if i disagree with his conclusion as to the date of ned's birth.
after 7/7 there is no time or place left for goodness to survive without a sense of pupose and commitment for "justice in peace" to match the 'justice by terror' of prophets of other religions.
in terms of miracles worked, i believe 'native ned' was a saint. not of any specific religion ; but of humanity's striving to overcome, its seeming inhumanity to man and nature.
ned's words spoken from the dock, with redmond barry's unexpected death were confirmation of the power of the divine laws of nature over any manmade laws.
as with eureka and anzac, ned has become a potent symbol of an individual's resistance. to prevent the triumph of tyranny over the spirited belief of the "fearless, free and bold."
long may this spirit flow in the veins and sustain, other australian sons and daughters.
sharon's reference to max brown's fine work prompts me to ask as to its republication. this is another foundational work which merits more attention than it has received, from the readers of carey and robert drewe.
in conclusion, may i thank you all for your courteous replies.
please remember that 9/11; 12/10; 7/7 are all 'successful' manifestations of the spiritual power of religion and prophets over the hearts and minds of humanity.
now, as 'native ned' once again stands up for "justice in peace.
surely we can sympathsize and support him?
or are we just frivolous fans?
sharon's words say it all. "ned kelly is a great uniter and has brought diverse people together from all points of the globe over the last century or so."
he also helped bring and keep together this nation.
in this year, the sesquicenteneray of his birth, why not give his principle of "justice in peace", the chance denied it, by the injustice of his execution.
in the spirit of jesus christ, humanity has tried to make love and not war with little success.
why not now give peace a chance in our fostering of natural justice?
i see ned's story as the ideal parable.
maikel
llama
Mr Annalee: If you don't mind me asking...
What is your problem with Ned Kelly and the Boys?
Have you read through your post and considered it 'helpfull' to the cause?
'cognitive cosmology' : What? Can you explain this to me in Laymans Terms please mate?
I fear your a fruit loop and must know your objectives.
I'm not cross at you, but I think such an eratic post needs explanation.
regards dave cox (llama)
ned kelly and the boys
maikel annalee
dear dave,
thanks for your enquiry.
there is no problem with this. but as i have pointed out before, ned was more than a boy.
also i believe that my ancestors and many others, were not going to allow a bushranger or a boy, to become the icon of the nation they helped form.
you are right. it may not be helpful to the cause as you define it.
but the cause for me and many others is more than just ned and the boys.
cosmology studies the origin and evolution of the universe in time and space.
cognitive cosmology includes this but relates it back to the evolution of time and space in the mind of humankind.
the matrix movies ask: are we inside a matrix? as we seem to be in the universe of galactic space. the answer for the cognitive cosmologist is that the universe and the matrix are inside us.
this is usually not the sort of stuff to go down well with the next beer. although the abc show 'science in the pub' is a great success for many including myself.
the erratic nature of the post, is a product of my wish to share with a wider audience, the cutting edge developments in science which affect our understanding of natural laws. it 's hard to put it any simpler; but i'm happy to answer your honest enquiries further.
my objective is to prevent ned being dumbed down and disrespected. not to stop the beer flowing.
hope this clears things up a bit.
maikel
llama
Hmmmm.mate.
What the hell do you mean 'Ned was more than a Boy'
I'm not entertaining you anymore.
I'll crack another...
everyone knows here I knock back a couple...
and maybe you need to pipe down ...
...Are you some kind of nut?
'
cosmology studies the origin and evolution of the universe in time and space'
Just leave things alone and pull your head in .
Why do you give a about Ned Kelly?
KC2000 FREE FORUM
Dave White
OK, I have just read all the latest 'helpful' information from someone who truly believes he is right.
Believing in oneself is admirable, unfortunately that does not in any way make the content any more credible nor believable. Stop and think for a moment how this sort of stuff must look to outsiders, then perhaps you may see why often people who are interested in Ned's story are seen as 'nutters'.
I and MOST here are not 'nutters', nor are we all 'Hero worshipers' etc. Most of us simply wish to get to the facts in a clear, uncomplicated manner.
The technique of turning someone's critisisms into praise a clever one indeed, however most people on this forum can see through the baldedash being expoused as 'knowledge & religious zeal'.
There seems to be a lot of effort made to show that all of this is backed by science and universities.
I am having trouble finding the qualification of 'Cognitive Cosmologist' at any of the Universities I checked? Perhaps I have the term incorrect? As this is the basis of this debate I am trying to get my head around the actual qualification, if there is one.
We seem to be going around in circles here and for no actual benefit.
I spent time on the ABC radio having a go at Peter Carey, so I am no fan of his work. However is it necessary to have a go at him at every opportunity? He seems to be a real thorn in your side.
How about moving on, we all now know his work was fiction and as an old friend pointed out to me he did get many to research Ned after they read his novel. So I have to give the bloke some credit.
I did not contradict you nor Ian Jones about talking to the spirit world, however what you have done is repeated it in part to make Ian stand out. Once again I see you wish to use his name to add weight to your theories. I am perplexed as to why all this has to be made so complicated.
Anyway, I guess I am banging my head up against the wall and am happy enough for you to ignore my pleas for some sanity back into the story of Ned Kelly and the boys. Not to worry, at least you know where I stand. (and someone has to make a stand)
I shall try and refrain from continuing this 'debate' as it will never end.
I wish you no malice at all, I am just in the opposite corner on this one.
Dave White.
llama
Blood is thicker than water...
...My Father always said.
Sharon Hollingsworth
Maikel, in response to your query as to the republishing of Max Brown's "Australian Son" there was this info at ironoutlaw--
"Having been given the authority by Max's widow Erina to have the manuscript republished, ncs publishing will reproduce this Australian masterpiece and have it ready for exclusive sale via ironoutlaw.com on October 29, 2005."
I can only wonder what Max had revised in this before his death. Still it remains a favourite Ned biography of mine and was the first "factual" book read on him after reading Carey's fiction.
As far as my quote on Ned and "unity," I was using that in a very different context than in the context of supporting your "cause" and I do hope you will refrain in future from using that quote (or anything else I have posted that might sound like it is in support of your conclusions) in any of your future writings elsewhere or postings here as it associates me with something I most certainly had not intended to be seen as supporting. I ask this with no malice and all courtesy.
Speaking of your credentials, Maikel, I am most curious as to what degrees you do hold and from which schools. Also if you do not mind saying so, can you tell us of your currrent profession? Are you a uni professor? Or are you a "cognitive cosmologist" and is there a living to be made doing that (whatever "that" is)? I am not being facetious, just curious!
Again, I will ask what I asked long ago, is your Native Ned website going to be ready anytime soon? Or will you just continue to be featured at Ironicon, sort of like how I used to be featured at Dave's site?
Sharon
in conclusion maikel's last words
maikel annalee
dear daves and sharon,
thank you for your replies.
especially the info on the max brown republication.
it is sad that you feel i am misusing, either ian jones' name or sharon's previous statements.
it is a matter of professional courtesy, to acknowledge the previous contributions of others. ian jones can speak for himself and i am quite happy to honour sharon's request.
but it was not used to support my work. just to show that i couldn't say it any better than ian or sharon.
cosmology is an established academic discipline and cosmologists are thick on the ground. but they are into the "search for extra terrestrial intelligence", [seti] while i have chosen the other way.
my work is the "quest for inter cranial intelligence" [qici]. in this discipline i am currently unique.
so i can see how dave c. wants me to "leave things alone and pull my head in."
so i shall!
and also why dave w. sees the need "to put some sanity back into the story of ned". sure thing!
there are more demands on my time and 1 finger typing skills[?] than i can manage.
which is why, sharon, i am not yet up on native ned.
and yes, there is a living to be made as a cognitive cosmologist and no i have retired from uni. although i still network with princeton's anomalous research unit.
the validity of your experiences are confirmed by them. not me.
so with the same respect that you have shown to me. i say farewell to the forum.
ned has asked that i leave you with his call for "justice in peace".
he also said to remind you all of the fact that his current beliefs are congruent in many ways with mine and others such as alex c. castles.
he asks you to read alex's posthumous book. it's about the last 137 days of ned's life. it also confirms the then inaudible remarks at his hanging that ned communicated to me, before lunch, on sunday 26 june 2005. [see p.218]
finally, he wishes to assure you all, that in the passage of time and with the gift of
'mary's fullness of grace', he has now made good his claim to manifest an 'afterlife'. [see p. 220]
as alex clearly sees it: "a state of grace that would allow him to freely wander the world". but there is now no torment in ned's heart and mind. he wishes to become what he sincerely wanted to be an example of "justice in peace".
i shall keep you informed of developments as ned requests me to. otherwise cheerio and thanks for all the 'fish'.
maikel
Sharon Hollingsworth
Maikel, deep down I am actually flattered that you think that my words are worthy and that I am well-spoken as concerns my statement about Ned and unity, but I hope you do understand that certain people might have associated my words with being a sort of endorsement of some of your more controversial theories whether you intended it that way or not. Thus I felt the need to make the request and as I stated before it was entirely without malice. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
Sharon
Ground control to Major Tom.....
Matt Shore
Pardon the pun everyone, but if you give these people 'enough rope', well..look what they've just done.
Inter-cranial what?? Are you fair dinkum??
Maikel, this all seems like 'Richard Cranial' intelligence to me. And yes, I'm sure we would all agree that you are, in your own words, 'unique'.
Goodbye and good luck gazing at the stars. It's been a real hoot listening to your theories. I have heard some absolute doozies in my time, but you have taken it to another inter-galactic level altogether.
Re-inventing history, putting your own words into Ned's mouth, without him or his people having the benefit of reply is morally wrong.
Perhaps you should send your resume to NASA?
Matt.
Dave Brown ......and may the force be with you......
Davo
Dave White
I bet you five bob he will return!
(after Ned gives him the nod of-course)
Still, he sure made you think, pity it was about everything 'except' Ned.
Dave White.
llama
Now... as Dave White say's
"let's get back to Learning'!
Dave White
Good idea mate! Just like going back to school, only this time we actually WANT to learn!
And I have been doing just that, was reading a letter a person sent to Ramsay and boy did they give him a serve! So much for the comments of late that everyone hated Ned and that we only 'thought' people liked him (Castles) I knew I had seen both sides of this argument and these letters from people either begging for his life to be saved or simply pleading that he was forced into what happened are proof that not all were his enemy. (remember how even Ned said he believed people 'excreted' his name, but to others he was their champion. Always two sides, never black and white.
Dave White.
KC2000 FREE FORUM
ned
Mark Perry
Dear Maikel.
I'm afraid I am not relating to the space U are coming from.
Maybe U should move over here to Adelaide where it's easier to get gear to smoke. This is not a religious forum. It is a spot to discuss the real Kelly story and learn. Please be normal.
Love Mark.
Tim
Hey guys, we have been down this road before regarding his grand dillusions. Please Maikel, respect our opinions & belief's as we come to terms on respecting yours. I don't think this is the the forum or place to preach your utter crap on Ned and infact the Eureka rebellion which you have also turned into a disrespectful farce.......
You want people to take you seriously then start your own " freak site " and not ruin ours with your pathetic bid for glory & fame ( or defame )......See how many hits you get on it.......It won't come from this black duck !
Tim.
marcus
All,
I think its fair enough to ask and question Maikel on his theories. He did take the courtesy to respond to those who asked questions.
But to have a blatent go at him is a bit rough...
regards
Marcus
Sharon Hollingsworth
Marcus, thank you for making that post as it serves as a reminder of how we would all want to be treated if the shoe was on the other foot! You seem to be a true gentleman who takes the feelings of others into consideration.
Before you had posted that I had been ruefully thinking to myself "So, NOW, who will we play "Hounds & the Hare" with?"
It is no wonder at all why not many are "game" to post here, is it?
Hey, I guess I better watch out, before I am made into the "hare"! LOL!
Only thing is, I cannot run very fast (unless there is a snake behind me!!). LOL!
Sharon
Dave White
I am sorry but he did not 'respond', he avoided the answer with gibberish!
No one likes to attacked, but sometmes you have to stand up and question what is being said, especially when it is being backed with so-called science.
Hopefully we can all move on now.
Dave White.
Marcus
thanks for the kind words Sharon
and fair call Dave
cheers
Marcus