KC2000 Free service Forum, be civil at all times
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The importance of secrecy
Tue Nov 2 21:16:25 2004
MarianM
In various threads over this wonderful forum, there have been several remarks about finding out places and information (especially where the armour was made and when Ned was born)
As an outsider, it seems to me that the families know a lot more than the rest of us, as is only natural. Do we, as outsiders, have any right to that information? I have my doubts. Frankly, I'd love to know everything but I'm not a Kelly or a Byrne or a Hart or a Lloyd (I'm not even an Australian!) and I don't have a right to ask that this sort of family lore be displayed for the whole world to pick over.
As for exact sites, I sort of agree with Paul - much as I like Bill who's a great bloke and the salt of the earth, I have big doubts about revealing locations because of the inevitable desecration that takes place. I've had this discussion with Bill so I know he understands my point of view. Yes, I want to know I'm standing in the right spot and no, I don't want every hoon with a ute and a slab to know. Perverse? Contrary? You bet!
Wed Nov 3 00:35:14 2004
lola Rowe
(Edit Post)
Lola Rowe
Thank you marian , my sentiments exactly. (especially your last few lines.)Lola
Wed Nov 3 04:48:41 2004
the importance of being earnest
(Edit Post)
maikel annaley
hi marian,
well now, let me see if i read you right?
are you saying, that seeking information, to establish disputed or uncertain facts, about ned's birth date, is now 'off limits' ?
personally i'd be quite happy for someone to tell me that it is known. but, according to you, it is not for the likes of me. and if so, why?
i mean, you may call yourself: "an outsider" ; and you seem to believe:" i'm not even an australian." i don't see you that way and i'm sorry that you do feel like that.
but i'm asking about ned's birth date, because i am an australian and proud of it. and my great-father's inheritance of the warby ranges, the oxley plain and the ovens river are still there for all to share.
i feel you have misunderstood me. it happens! o.k.?
maikel
Wed Nov 3 06:20:42 2004
Paul O'Keefe
(Edit Post)
Paul O'Keefe
Hi Marian,
YES YES YES....thankyou for you comments..finally someone is catching on!!!!
Marian, I have a 11 yr old son who oneday i would like to show him "the spot" that has stayed undisturbed for over 124 yrs when he is old enough to take in the significance of it.(which will be sooner than later)
How special would it be for a father to show his son (his heritage) and explain exactly what occured there still undisturbed for over 124 years. So he can do the same ..god willing one day to his children.
In June we walked the train track at Glenrowan and i explained to him where the gang tore up the rail line and the idea behind it...it was priceless to see my young boys face..he was so interested and facinated..one of those father and son moments i shall cherish forever.
I dont want to sound like im going over the top on this subject or others, but people dont consider the consequences of their actions and THEIR so called DISCOVERIES...remember their not their discoveries!!!...
My main concearn is we only have to look at the major Kelly sites such as the Homestead at Greta, Beveridge and other sites that have been picked clean by people of anything they can get their hands on.
Now Stringybark creek is suffering the same fate....surprise surprise!!!!....makes me rather sad and angry that i might not be able to show my wonderful young Son his heritage if this keeps occuring.
i love the internet and the information it provides but it is a bit of a double edged sword.
I just wish SOME people would take the hint...
Regards
Paul O'Keefe
Wed Nov 3 14:14:58 2004
(Edit Post)
Tim
Hey all, I have tried to bite my tongue long enough over some of the above issues. It seems this forum is turning into a witch hunt for Bill and some of his idea's. People some times forget that historians like Ian Jones have been ratting Kelly sites for close to 40 years ( check any of his books ) yet nobody EVER says a bad word about him and the relics he still has to this day ( the so called part of the still, which looks like all the other pieces of cast iron laying around the sawmill area) The police caves are a classic example as well, there are no sardine cans left....why ? Because they were taken in the 60's and 1993 !!!!
I know for a fact that descendants also have their own momentoes of the Kelly story, so whats the difference ? Just because its " YOUR " story and " YOUR" family does that give you any different rights than us ? I don't think so......
Like my recently departed father has always said to me........If you have not got something nice to say about somebody..........don't say anything.
How true these words ring to me everytime I log onto this forum, It is not such a fun and interesting place to be anymore, people are now afraid to post what they think in fear of the back lash from " CERTAIN" people who should know better.
Tim
.
Wed Nov 3 18:09:36 2004
Thank you, Tim!
Sharon in the USA
Tim, once again, you amaze me with your strength of conviction and character and your ability to say things without fear of what others think. What a breath of fresh air you have always brought to this forum. Many times I have wanted to respond to a certain post here or there but was apprehensive that I would be considered an outsider just sticking their beak in! LOL! There have been times I suppose it was for the best I never posted in the heat of the moment, LOL, because later after cooling off and reflecting I usually had a completely different take on the situation anyway! Such is life, eh? This forum has been quite the learning experience in so many ways! No matter where I go I will always carry a bit of this grand experience with me!
Cheers, mates! Sharon
Wed Nov 3 18:29:36 2004
CAN WE COOL THIS THREAD DOWN A BIT
KC2000
Wed Nov 3 20:55:28 2004
(Edit Post)
MarianM
Okay, I seem to have kicked off a bit of a storm so I'll clarify my views a little. First off, I am not putting the boot into anyone, especially Bill Denheld. Bill has done a fantastic job of gathering information, especially photos, and I'm sure there are lots of people who are so grateful that they can visit Stringybark Creek and actually stand where the killings took place (yes, I paused for a while before I wrote "killings"). I am one of them. I knew from Ian's work that the site wasn't where the picnic ground was and I am aware that others have always known the correct location. I've also visited Kellys Creek with Bill and, for me, to be in both places is immeasureably important. BUT I still feel that revealing such sites to the general public leaves them open to danger and I worry a great deal about that. What is the answer? I don't know.
I didn't want people to vent their spleen at Bill - he is the loveliest bloke you could ever want to meet but clearly he stirs up some deep feelings within other people. His desire to uncover the facts and then share them with others is genuine but I've had long arguments about the advisability of this. As for Ian and others collecting bits and pieces, I understand what a terrible temptation it is to "preserve" a bit of history in this way (and some important pieces have been souvenired by apparently respectable people over the years!) If you find something precious and the chances are that someone with fewer scruples will come along after you and pinch it, what are you to do? Are you preserving it or just stealing it? Once again, I am utterly ambivalent. And for the record, the only thing I have ever collected was a piece of dead wood lying by the roadside on the bank of the Eleven Mile Creek, that had fallen off a tree.
I do a lot of local history and if I find myself delving into the family history of someone I sometimes feel uncomfortable - if I meet descendants I sometimes express this discomfort and judge how they feel about things. None of my family was ever remotely famous or infamous so I don't know what it feels like to have a stranger poking around in your greatgranny's dark secrets. Maikel, to you I say, of course we have the right to research and learn but we don't have the right to demand information. I don't know whether or not there is any firm evidence for Ned's birthdate. Yes, we have the right to ask but no, we don't have the right to demand. And i mean it when I say I'm not even Australian - don't read anything into it, it's just a legal fact
Sorry if anything I said was misconstrued - it's just a problem which weighs on my mind. I wasn't aiming arrows at anyone. I'd like to think that we are all free on this forum to express views in a polite and reasonable fashion. I'm not angry, just worried. As I described myself somewhere else, I'm just an ageing hippie who wants the world to get on in a caring fashion, with no cause for anger and disputes. Oh gawd! This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius!!:grin::grin:
My apologies for this load of tosh.
Wed Nov 3 22:56:20 2004
my requests...!
maikel annaley
hi marian,
it's not tosh! i thank you sincerely, for explaining.
my requests are not meant to be demanding. as a caring person, i, like yourself and many others want to see ned's sesquicentenary birthday honoured; not forgotten, just because it was 'too hard' to work out!
i also want australia and the world to have a better chance of understanding the truth of 'native-born' ned.
it's not easy for me to accept any society, which honours an author's fictional work titled "a true history..."
and the booker prize was world-wide! in this sense, i suppose i might also be considered as: "an ageing hippie."
whether i qualify or not, i don't want the dishonest exploiters of ned to have the final say.
so on my part, i shake your hand in empathy.
maikel
Thu Nov 4 05:59:55 2004
Witch hunt???
Paul O'Keefe
Tim
Tim it is not a witch hunt directed at Bill, I think Bill has done amazing stuff with his website and some of his finding are very interesting and thought provoking.
What I dont want to see is these discoveries or findings publicised on the net or this forum used by others out there to destroy and desecrate these areas that are part of the Kelly legend. and i agree like Marian said revealing such sites and information to the general public leaves them open to danger THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!!!! AND I DONT WANT TO SEE THIS OCCUR.!!!! ...and if my opinion (not just mine) upsets people..so be it
Tim, all i want is people to realise the consequences of what they put on the NET can be and will be misused and to weigh up if its worth "spilling the beans" to the world. or to keep the information to themselves to enjoy.
Paul
The importance of secrecy
Thu Nov 4 17:32:20 2004
Cool down boys!
Nicole Jones
Hi all,
First of all - great thread to start Marian! It's an interesting question and as we can see from all the response a heated topic!
First of all, I don't think people questioning the WAY Bill does things constitutes a witch hunt. Obviously Bill is a likeable fellow and a passionate man. All my posts in relation to Bill commend his research, his enthusiasm and his knowledge. It is his desire to mark everything that upsets me. And you know, its ok for me to get upset and to question his motives!!! I don't want to lose the thrill of the chase in finding sites because everything is marked! True Kelly enthusiasts love the research and WILL find the sites. There are enough maps, documents, texts and other helpful Kellyites out there to make it possible. Mark it and you open up the chance for any idiot to rifle it! My question is why mark it at all? Isn't it enough to know the whereabouts of where something is and give it a greater chance of protection? Who are you doing it for? Is it to simply get your name in the paper?And if you do mark it, realise that there are consequences in doing so, and therefore YOU have a major responsiblity to the future integrity of the site.
I am a bit disappointed that in defending Bill the boots have been dug into others. Isn't that the same complaint being made on behalf of Bill?
There is a question of what do you do when you find something historically significant - do you remove for protection? Do you leave it with the chance that others will take it? Do you remove the items and then ask for the site to be protected? I know that if people throughout history had left everything where they found it then our museums would have nothing to show and we would have lost fantastic historical pieces! Those great Kelly exhibitions that most of us attended and loved would not have happened if people hadn't taken items in the past, family members hadn't held on to their histories or historians and researchers hadn't shared their knowledge.
I suppose the point is that with Stringybark we have a chance to preserve a somewhat untouched site. Let us learn from past mistakes. Let us continue to question motives and methods - it keeps us all honest but lets keep it dignified and respectful!
Nicole Jones
Thu Nov 4 21:56:30 2004
MarianM
If this has proved one thing, it's that this is a very touchy subject! I have been feeling rather sick about starting the whole thing for the last couple of days but maybe it's like lancing a boil - better out than in!
I think I'll keep my head down and my mouth shut for a while but Maikel, if you read this, drop me a line on
mandpmatta@yahoo.com.au
Fri Nov 5 04:21:30 2004
Dave White
Hello all, I had wondered if I should join into this discussion or not and figured I may as well add my thoughts.
The question on debate here is whether or not we should sign post sites such as Stringybark etc.
As I am friends with most people who have commented I hope you will not take offence to anything I say here. (naturally you are free to agree or disagree)
I was first taken to the police shootings site by Gary Dean many years ago. It was not a place I could have found alone and was very thankful to have been taken there. If not for Gary I would not have had a hope in hell of seeing such a place.
Years later I was there with Bill Denheld, we were discussing the pros and cons of signposting such a place. As we did so we met up with a chap who had just been sketching what he thought was the site of the police shootings for one of those historical sketchbooks. If not for the fact that Bill and I were there, he would have sketched the wrong location.
At that stage only a handful of persons knew the true location at SBC, I felt privileged but a little uneasy that I could visit such a place of historical significance but others could not. What to do? Obviously I was not alone in this thought and the location eventually appeared online. I had mixed feelings, worry of idiots ruining this pristine place etc. One could still see holes in the ground where a hut’s post had disintegrated, moss on the trees hanging in a fragile fashion as it had done for generations. I wondered at the time how this place could survive the onslaught of numbers of people tramping through the area.
I still worry; I still have the same concerns. The last time I was there (Aug) the site was as I first saw it, for how long this will be the case I have no idea.
So the question is, should others or I have the right to keep the location secret?
Does revealing the location on the net by people mean the place will be destroyed?
Would it be preferable to pass on the location via word of mouth?
Would that have the same potential for the sites destruction?
Is there a way to allow visitors without the risk of ruining the areas pristine condition?
My feeling is that if we signpost the site and the road to it, the place will eventually be ruined. Once it is destroyed, it is destroyed forever. The way it is today is pretty much as it has looked for many many years.
The site is unique in that it has remained unknown to most and untouched for that reason.
The site of the two huts was also in an unknown/untouched position until its location was divulged to the masses, now it has ugly mesh across the rocks to stop theft and destruction. The site of the last part of the Kelly target tree was similarly publicized and was afterwards being cut up at such a rate that it had to be removed, and in doing so has created an easy path for anyone to tramp all over the place. What was a hard to get to untouched location has become an easy to reach spot that may or may not be destroyed some time in the near future.
In no way am I having a go at Bill or anyone else who had good intentions, I am really just asking the question of what is to be done now.
The shires and councils that have a Kelly connection have printed up brochures on how to get to all the known Kelly sites, however they do not show you how to get past the (SBC) tourist ‘Kelly tree’. Maybe this is not a bad thing, but like I said at the beginning, ‘what right do I have to keep it a secret’?
Is there a way to show fair dinkum interested parties the location and keep out the idiots? I do not know of one, and in the interim (despite my initial thoughts that signs were not a bad thing) I would now prefer to leave it unsigned until a solution can be found. I do not wish to be seen as saying, “I know where it is, the rest of you can go jump” however I am concerned the site could be destroyed. Maybe a moratorium until we can determine the consequences?
I read with great interest the find of the location or close to it, of Sgt Kennedy’s place of death. I would like to see this location myself, fortunately I know Bill and Tim and can ask for that location. What if I did not know them? In that case I would never know where to look. A sign? And so goes the circle of this problem.
Over to you.
PS, for those that have never been to the shootout site at SBC, nothing can be taken from the site except its pristine condition. (there never were any relics) And Marian, stick your head back up.
Fri Nov 5 06:49:29 2004
dave cox
Way to go Paul!!!!
I've been awayfor a while
Fri Nov 5 16:49:08 2004
Tim
Hey all, it seems people can read into thread posts in different ways. I have been privillaged enough to visit all sites as they are including Stringy, German, Kelly creeks, ruins at Faithfulls creek, all of the Woolshed inc the caves, the normal Kelly sites inc 11 mile and some hideout sites that I'm sure apart from 2 others have never been visited. The relics on this site are STILL laying on the ground as they have been for 126 years. HAVE I posted this info anywhere ? NO because I have the utmost respect for the people who have shown me in confidence.
I agree with the state of Stringy/ Two huts site, I'm sure I probably started the complaining of how these sites are being tramped all over, its funny how people are making comments when the have not even been to the sites mentioned. Check them out first before you make comments regarding the condition of these sites.
My point was, everybody has a right to see these sites, they are NOT hidden by any means, a little research will get you in the ball park. I am just annoyed that Bill seems to cop a lot of the blame for what has taken place when certain books clearly tell the reader that the shoot out site is in the wrong location. Again the comments are coming from people that have not even met Bill. Spend some quality time away with him in the bush researching the Kelly story and be totally blown away with the knowledge, passion and enthusiasm that this man has not only for all things Kelly but Australian history as well. He has always stated that when a suitable place is found, he will be most happy to share the items he has found, no different to famous others who have relics.
This topic has been thrashed over and over but it seems to be going nowhere. If the " brains trust " could all get together and put aside their differences for one moment I'm sure that a solution may be reached, rather than the topic being bounced around and no ideas forthcoming.
My father's dying wish to me was to have his ashes scattered over the site at Stringy. Do you think I want every Tom, Dick and Harry walking over what I feel is spiritual ground and my dads remains..........think about it...............
Tim.
Sat Nov 6 01:43:12 2004
witch hunt 2
Paul O
Tim,
lets set the records straight, since YOU are so "pissed off "( you words) at the comments aimed at Bill and to qoute You ''the comments are coming from people that have not even met Bill"'.
Tim if this comment is directed at me i spent the whole day 18 months ago with him and Ian Jones travelling around Kelly sites so you are wrong if that comment was directed at me.
I found him a very smart and nice fellow and very interested and passionate of the Kelly story, but this doesnt mean i have to agree with some of the things he does.and i think I'm entitled to have my say.
It has never been about a "Billbash".
and the solution is really really easy Tim...have you discoveries...but keep it "in house" dont wack it on the net, or in the bordermail or on the sunrise show like the dan and steve dissapearance story that keeps popping up now and then (Hi to Gaz and councilor Tully)
Just all i want is this fantastic story kept for future generations and not become this race to grab 15 minutes of fame.
.
Paul
P.S i didnt think you could swear on this forum?
Sat Nov 6 06:42:11 2004
Tim
Paul, my comments were never directed at you personally, there are people on here that have certainly not met Bill or spent time with him. I also have no interest in publicity and spilling the beans on some of these sacred sites ( to me anyway ) I have been blessed with the sharing of these sites with various Kelly experts including the Hart property around Wangaratta and out of respect keep these close to my chest. My research goes onto to this day not for you, joe blow or anybody else for that matter but for me and my interest in the story which would not be complete as it is if not for the help of people like Bill, Bruce, Gary etc etc.
I agree with all comments said on the protecting of the sites, I commented on the state of Stringy months ago and was glad that the leaflet on the back of the information board had dissapeared with the sign which directed people to the site. I am happy to help with some solution on this on going saga, but it needs a lot more imput from the people that care most about preserving this story and its history.
Tim.
Sat Nov 6 23:10:18 2004
Lola Rowe
Yes. I have also met Bill, we got along famously, and yes he is passionate about the story of Ned & the Boys, but he did have my answer I feel it is a shame to see that historic sites have been vandalised and I am sure it will happen again & again, but I don't know what the answer is, when I met up with Bill and we studied the stones which supposedly was the fireplaces at the 2 huts, we spoke about the hope that they may be left intact, in the position that these Players in our story left them. But there will be somebody come along, that has wire cutters , bolt cutters or such and remove these stones. !!!!!!
Thu Nov 11 20:48:37 2004
MarianM
You can't keep a garrulous woman down! I said I wasn't going to say any more but I just can't seem to stop. Now the heat has died slightly on this thread, there's a few points that I'd like to add. In no particular order and in my usual half-baked manner, I'm afraid.
First off, I thought Dave expressed the situation about revealing/not revealing sites very well. There is no simple answer.
Although there seemed to be the impression that I was simply talking about Stringybark, Germans and Kelly's Creeks, it was meant to be much more general than that. Nicky added some good thoughts about artefacts which are now in museums but which otherwise would most likely have been lost to the public. The ideal situation is to have an artefact left lying in its original situation, thus retaining its integrity, (although perhaps not retaining its condition, another problem!) but what chance do such things have of lying undisturbed these days, especially when the market in Kelly memorabilia is going through the roof. Perhaps it is better for items to be collected and then displayed so that everybody who's interested can at least look at them. The rifle "Betty" did it for me at Matt & Brendan's OMG exhibition. It's such a buzz to see these things even if they are behind glass; far better than not being able to see them at all because some rich collector has squirrelled them away. Incidentally, all the bits and pieces that Bill D. picked up around the creeks (and which are displayed for all to see on his website) were offered for the Legend of Ned Kelly exhibition. I know that he has always felt that if there was a suitable permanent place to display them he would happily offer them. I may be putting words in his mouth but I believe he sees himself as a custodian of such material, not its owner. Certainly, by displaying them on his website in a "virtual exhibition" he has given people who are unable to visit the area a feeling of involvement in history in general and Kelly history in particular. If information about such items and the relative positions in which they were found is made available to the public then other people can draw their own conclusions or come up with their own theories, even if they can't do their own on-ground research.
Now for a hypothetical - if there was a site on public land which was important to the Kelly story (or any other piece of history) but no-one knew where it was within, say, a couple of kilometres' radius, and you happen to wander along one day and quite by chance find some item which clearly demonstrates that you've found the exact spot, what should you do? Leave it there and tell no-one? What if the site is in danger of being, say, burnt off or bulldozed? Do you tell the authorities and no-one else? What if they will pay no attention if you don't have the backing of other people? And if you happen to be a relation of the person who left that item, do you have a right to take it more so than if you weren't related? This might seem a bit silly, but think what might have happened if DNRE or its predecessors had decided the Kelly Tree picnic ground needed a better car park and the area they chose was where the real site is. It's only by sheer luck that such a thing hasn't happened before. We were very lucky in 2003 that the whole place didn't go up in flames.
Paul, you seem worried that Bill in particular has used the Net as a way of displaying his discoveries. Don't forget that when Ian made his "discovery" of the real SBC site in 1993 or so he got a huge article in the Age, including a photo which would enable anyone with a bit of initiative to locate the exact spot. And if anyone had wanted instructions on how to get there, then all they needed to do was follow the trail of clues left in various publications. I transcribed the tapes for one of those publications (the 1993 Ned Kelly: Man & Myth Revisited symposium) so I know how detailed it was. Should Ian be included in the list of people who may have put sites into danger or is it just the use of the Net that concerns you? (Please don't take offence at this question - it is asked absolutely seriously and I am not trying to have a dig at you.)
Nicky spoke of the thrill of discovering locations for oneself and it certainly is exciting. It's also extremely frustrating when (as I have done!) you try time and again to get somewhere or nail down a particular spot but fail miserably. The Net is a way of allowing people with a genuine desire to see these places to meet other peole who can help them achieve their goals and I don't think this is such a bad thing.
I may sound as though I've changed my original views - not so. I'm just demonstrating that I really don't know what is best. There are so many arguments. Ned has always brought out the best and worst in people. Who remembers those shot-riddled signs from pre-1996 days? Not a good sight. Perhaps locations have more chance of being protected if more people know about them. On the other hand............!!
This time I really will stop talking!
Wed Nov 17 03:46:44 2004
virtual reality -way to go!
maikel annaley
hi marian,
although i'm not partial to garrulous women or half-baked ideas, i find you make a lot of sense.
bill's website, is to my mind, as exemplary of user-friendliness, as kc2000 is in hosting this forum.
i'm not judging others as inferior. it just seems that his research and its presentation are to be commended.
you make excellent points, about the vividness of virtual reality, lessening the potential impact on the actual site. and it seems gary dean is doing his bit, for the history archives.
i can see how everyone has a lot invested in their websites; but bill's front page links are comprehensive and not biased[as far as i can see].
as someone who is now being reminded, that my research on ned's birth date is just repeating john moloney's, i can see how fragmented is our kelly story.
this is not good enough for ned. it's an open invitation for anyone to use and abuse his memory, particularly overseas politicians and local ignoramuses.
we can't wait for the government to discover, what is remembered. or to protect what is discovered. let's develop a code of conduct, to let them know how it should be done, for ned's sake and for our nation.
we should all be able to work together. if we don't do it right for ned now, who will?
maikel
KC2000 Free service Forum, be civil at all times
The importance of secrecy
Wed Nov 17 21:36:05 2004
he deserves more
tyrone
re your post of nov 3rd tim i say shame on you.
ian jones has greatly increased our following
of ned over the years with his books on kellyana,
and let us not forget he was mainly responsible
for the outstanding1980 factual mini-series
the last outlaw .ian deserves much better than your drivel.
i have been privileged on occasion to meet ian.
he certainly has my vote!
tyrone
Wed Nov 17 23:10:47 2004
trevor harbord
Tyrone I certainly agree with you about Ian Jones.
The work He has put Into The story of Ned Kelly through television , Through books and through Events is immeasurable.
He has been researching the Details of the Saga since before a lot of us were born, and hardcore research following leads across Victoria,Interviewing Ancestors of those involved, delving public and Police records.
I often say when he ultimately goes to the higher place a lot of knowledge will go with him.
Even Brad Webb admits its Ian Jones Book A short Life that greatly escalated his interest in the Kelly story.
He has done the hard yards big time and if he has taken a couple of sardine tins
from a cave good luck to him.
Im sure most people have done something of a lesser or grander scale but wouldnt admit.
On ya Jonesy
Thu Nov 18 14:57:30 2004
Tim
Hey all, everybody has a right to a say, yours are no different. Again it is interesting how people read into posts, I too have had the privilage of meeting Ian Jones, have his mini series on DVD and have stated many times that his books would always remain my favorites, " fatal friendship" being my all time best read. I simply stated that what Ian had collected over the last 40 odd years is no different to what Bill has collected or well known others that also may have relics picked up either in the best interests of Kelly history or in a darker way to exploit Ned and the boys.
It is all so stated above that Ian Jones has done much to enlighten, educate and bring Ned into the average persons home. Surely this is no different to what various others have done by bringing that information online via the internet with both good and bad websites. So where do you draw the line, I'm not sure what catergory of Kelly fanatics you call yourselves, but ask anybody who knows me on this forum ( and that is most people ) and they will all tell you that I am way out there with the best, I live and breath the Kelly story, not to exploit, cash in, rip people off, tell untruths, uncover privillaged sites or disrespect others that know better. I simply stated that Bill is not ALL to blame for the state of of various sites some of which he has not ever mentioned ie 11 mile creek at Greta, Kelly homestead at Beveridge etc etc etc.
Tim.
Thu Nov 18 21:41:57 2004
(Edit Post)trevor harbord
gday tim,
I see what youre getting at but The real desecrators are not the Denhelds or the Jones.
They are the ratbags who plough vehicles into walls at the Kelly Beveridge homestead steal skulls from OMG and steal parts of buildings at eleven mile creek Greta not those who keep a sardine tin as a memento.
Not to harp on but what jonesy has contributed to Kellyana pale the rest our contributions (IN MY OPINION) into insignificance.
Fri Nov 19 04:42:01 2004
trevor harbord
Tim you mention you have Ian Jones series the last outlaw on DVD!
I was under the impression it isnt even avail on commercial video let alone DVD?
Or have you just converted your own TV recorded video copy to DVD?
Im sure youve heard the never ending saga that prevents the series being officially released even on inferior VHS?
Fri Nov 19 16:47:34 2004
Tim
Hey Trevor, technology is a wonderful thing, without giving to much away, it is not hard to find people that can convert and restore ordinary vcr tapes into something that will not loose quality everytime you play it. Last time I checked on Brad's site, the go ahead had been given for its release, it was up to channel rex to pull its finger out and get this most fantastic portrayal of the story out there.
Hope it helps, email me if it does not
Tim.